Ryanair proposes surcharge for fat passengers

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by Mitsha on Thursday, November 26, 2009

If you got the actual ryanair.com page that deals with this proposed tax you will find that they are still investigating how to implement this. The four basic suggestions involve a calculation based on weight, waist measurement, BMI, and the fourth one is an actual seat test...much like the device they have for ensuring your carry on luggage meets the requirements. In my respectful view option number four appears to be the most fair. It targest people that actually do not fit in the seat regardless of the nature of their excess size.

I have travelled next to larger people whose girth did not affect my seating area. I have travelled on at least two occasions beside hulking, muscualr gentlemen whose shoulders and biceps were inches from my chest and face making for a very awkward dinner service.
The idea is that space on a plane is limited and they want to get as many people on the plane as possible with out sacrificing quality of service for all passengers.
Both individuals and corporations have economic bottom lines they have to adhere to while still attracting business.
Does anybody know if other airlines are considering similar approaches?

by Old Books on Wednesday, October 28, 2009

This whole debate about being obese or choosing to be obese while interesting and somewhat entertaining is probably better suited for a sociology or health issues message board. London Escorts is right.

This has nothing to do with discrimination or targeting a specific group maliciously. It's a matter of simple physics and economics. Airlines need/want more money. One of the avenues that they can exploit in that regard is the reality that some people take up more than one seat. So if you take up that extra space you will be charged more...nothing personal, just business. As a consumer if you feel unfairly targeted or that you are not getting good value for your dollar you can take your business elsewhere. I'm sure the airline won't take it personally...it's just business.

by Old Books on Monday, October 26, 2009

As a larger lady who is trying her best to diet, I think this kind of tax on so called 'fat people' is just another way to promote discrimination of anyone who does not fall under societys acceptable skinny image. Disgusting.

by rapid weight loss diet on Thursday, October 08, 2009

Nobody cares about your failed attempt to diet, just because you're sore about the size of your butt doesn't mean it should be everybody else's problem. Space is at a premium on an airplane - just pay for it and cry about it at home!

by Jen on Thursday, October 08, 2009

i recently took a plane trip and we had to wait, because a fat person held up the flight for ten minutes and the people in the front had to move from their seats ( handicaped by the way) so a fat person can sit there.

by yankee in texas on Monday, May 18, 2009

I think some of you have forgotten what discrimination really is. You cannot compare paying for a second seat to the holocaust. You cannot compare being sold into slavery because of your skin color to someone who is obese paying for the space they occupy. No African babies chose to be African, that's their race, they were born that way. Obese people were not born obese, a series of bad choices made them obese. Your race is not a choice but your girth is. People who cry discrimination every time they feel unique are generally just lazy quitters who cause their own failures. These types of people are typically the ones who feel that grades, awards, trophies, promotions and complements are unfair. Whenever there are competitions they show up to complain because they never win. Instead of complaining try putting some honest effort into the things you do and you will be surprised to notice how much discrimination will disappear from your life. You may even succeed at something. People speak of obesity as if it is a disability. Those people should be ashamed of themselves and the truly disabled should be outraged. I have yet to hear anyone who has a real disability say that if given an option they would choose to remain disabled. No blind person says "if there was a way to see again I won't take it." No paraplegic would say "if given the chance to walk again I wouldn't take it." Yet obese people who claim to be disabled will not get on a treadmill and eat only healthy food in order to become able-bodied again. You demand fairness but you don't understand the meaning of the word. How fair is it to have to share your seat with someone when you paid for an entire seat? How fair is it that a small pair of jeans cost the same amount as a large pair of jeans despite the obvious quantity difference in material? How fair it is that everyone pays the same price at a buffet when it is so very obvious the quantity eaten will not be the same between the obese and the normal? Just look at how much of our tax money goes towards the obese. How many ways do we have to accommodate the obese before they stop complaining? Should a meal at KFC be tax-deductible, should all stairs be converted to escalators? zzzzzz78759 said "You don't buy a seat, you buy a ticket." I have to assume that when you boarded that aircraft you sat on your ticket and not a seat, right? With your style of logic people in first class should pay the same as people in economy class because their tickets are the same size, the same color and I bet equally as comfortable to sit on. You pay for a seat, the ticket just proves that you paid and it tells you wear to put your butt. Which is the point, your butt should only be in the seat that the ticket says you can put it in and that's all. In regards to your comment about the paraplegic in the isle, most passengers and crew members will gladly carry them to safety because they can fit through all the emergency exits and regular people can lift them without dislocating a disc. You also mentioned that you are old enough to remember prejudice against blacks and you talk like you think you know something about the theory of flight with your DC-9 comment but I am black and I have completed ground school. You have demonstrated that you don't know a thing about either!

by Berealistic32889 on Sunday, May 03, 2009

Dear all!

Any discrimination can lead to extremes like Nazism. Just remember - they have started with mentally dissabled, but very soon Jews were victims of mad minds.

I am not telling, that there are Nazis at Ryanair, but that we should stop every discrimination, which can lead to such ideas.

So - stop discrimination!!!

Igor

by stop nazis on Sunday, May 03, 2009

I fly every week as part of my work. I deal with this problem every week 4 flights a week. I love it when I get my first class upgrade but days I dont - I have to deal with this topic.

The bottom line this is an airline issue that as the consumer we must bring pressure to bear for a change. There have been plenty of non productive, repetitive comments here. But honestly, please stop and think.

1 - If the airlines created rows of larger seats with a slightly larger fare the problem would be solved. Most people cannot afford to pay for two seats. While I dont agree with a lot jt1234 says - he's right, leaving an empty during peak periods is unfair to others.

2- The gentlemen with the broad shoulders could have space and not have their shoulder in my cheek.

3 - The folks with the larger bottoms could quit being treated badly by their fellow passengers. Large folks are not happy to be trying to squeeze into a seat 3/4 the size they need. They hear you when sigh, grumble etc. They hate it as much as you. Be nice - go yell at the airlines and let's make it happen!

Stop Whining! Start Acting!

by Travels Every Week on Saturday, May 02, 2009

I'm totally amused by all the people who want everyone and their luggage weighed, and then charged accordingly. Okay, that might give skinny people a break on their airfare, but how is it going to solve the problem of overweight people spilling into the seat the skinny ones paid for?

I've been on plenty of flights that were overbooked and had airline personnel begging passengers to voluntarily give up their seats so people with confirmed tickets can be seated. I don't think those folks would appreciate being told they can't fly because 10 or 15 people on board were required to buy two seats, leaving several empty seats per flight.

People, try not to be so judgmental of others. The fact is, you have NO idea what any given stranger's circumstances are. Your need to feel superior to those who weigh more than you do says a lot about you. Elderly people, children, and those with chronic illnesses might not be able to move quickly in an emergency either. A helping hand, rather than a cold shoulder, would go a long way to making sure everyone could safely exit a plane in an emergency.

by tucsonflier on Sunday, May 03, 2009

Bravo zzzzz78759!
You've said it well!

by fatso lady on Saturday, May 02, 2009

zzzzz78759 on Thursday, April 30, 2009, said the following:

"I offer the alternative of the "Perfect Discount." This discount can be offered to people (I think jt1234 should be offered the first one) who are thin, have no body odor, don't wear cologne, are beautiful, hairless, sweet, kind, gentle, quiet, travel with no luggage or carry-ons, are vegans, exercise, ride bicycles, drive hybrids, don't swear, wear only natural fabrics, don't have pets, never get sick, always travel alond, only drink water (no alcohol, soda, coffee, tea, etc.), earn $200,000 a year and are probably from California. These beautiful people could be given half price tickets, first class upgrades, and be carried on board by gorgeous flight attendants singing their praises.

How would that vote go?"

I agree with zzzzz!! I read all the posts and this one makes the most sense!
but...it's all a lifestyle choice...it would be so wonderful if we all "looked" so marvelous...remeber, it's how you look not how you feel....LOL

by fatso lady on Saturday, May 02, 2009

No Fat Tax, no prejudice, just a flat rate per pound taken on the airline by each passenger, be it luggage or body weight....since even little kids take up a certain minimum amount of weight, the flat rate should probably be on top of a base minimum charge. Otherwise a mad rush of skinny people will put the airlines out of business. It would also be a good idea for airlines to have a certain # of seats for passengers who need the extra space size wise, and a row or two with extra leg room for those with extra long legs.

And regarding the crying babies...I find them less annoying when I remind myself that NO ONE suffers more in this regard than their parents.

by fairflying on Saturday, May 02, 2009

I can't believe how rude this is! No, other airlines should definately NOT do this and whatever happened to repealing the "gas surcharge" now that gas prices have fallen???

by Ryanair sucks on Saturday, May 02, 2009

This whole discussion has become nothing short of ridiculous. It's supposed to be what you think of Ryan Air's "Fat Tax". It's turned into a diatribe of how some think everyone should behave and live.

Any time anyone villifies people for what they are instead of who they are, they set themselves up for ridicule.

The arguments don't hold water. You don't buy a seat, you buy a ticket to get from point a to point b. There's no excess fuel consumption, the airline averages the total weight of passengers. Even a passenger 100 pounds overweight on a FULL DC-9 averages that extra weight out to 1 lb per passenger. My child can, by herself, take on another 120 lbs. There's no safety issue, that's just insane. Do you think the paraplegic riding in the aisle seat is going to get out of your way in the event of an emergency?

They're all just excuses to justify your distaste for a specific group of people. Where I come from, that's called prejudice. I'm old enough to remember when the same things were said about people with black skin.

by zzzzz78759 on Friday, May 01, 2009

If you mail a larger or heavier package, you pay more than someone who mailed a smaller one. I think all fares should be on total weight of passenger plus all baggage (checked and carryon)(no additional bag fees) plus a mileage flown component. They should put dividers between the seats to force a passenger to occupy the space they paid for and allow others to have the space they paid for.

by FairPlay on Friday, May 01, 2009

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2399352.ece

by SM on Friday, May 01, 2009

zzzzz78759 on Thursday, April 30, 2009 wrote, "It's no one else's business how someone lives their life. Welcome to America, folks, land of free choice. If I want to eat Big Macs every day, then that's what I'll eat. Don't tell me how to live my life" but offered no facts or rational rebuttal to the fact that being obese as a choice affects health care costs for everone and that it therefore needs to be addressed by the overweight. The next tactic was the common last resort for someone who does not have the facts on their side--sarcasm: "I offer the alternative of the "Perfect Discount." This discount can be offered to people who are thin, have no body odor, don't wear cologne, are beautiful, hairless, sweet, kind, gentle, quiet, travel with no luggage or carry-ons, are vegans, exercise, ride bicycles, drive hybrids, don't swear, wear only natural fabrics, don't have pets, never get sick, always travel alond, only drink water (no alcohol, soda, coffee, tea, etc.), earn $200,000 a year and are probably from California. These beautiful people could be given half price tickets, first class upgrades, and be carried on board by gorgeous flight attendants singing their praises." Confirms that the posts and poster cannot be taken seriously. What does need to be taken seriously is the problem at hand, and there have been many creative solutions posted in this forum.

by jt1234 on Friday, May 01, 2009

America is the land of the free and what you do in your private life is your business, but your fat is not private. You are expecting the rest of society to carry you, literally in the case of the airlines. If you want to weight 500 pounds, go for it, it's your right as an American to be unhealthy, but do not expect any special treatment from the rest of us. The seats in planes are meant to fit the majority and if you choose to be different go ahead, but when making that choice remember the consequences that come with your choice. You have the right be angry at the world because you refuse to "fit in" but at the end of the day it's your fault and it's your problem so keep it to yourself and quit complaining to the rest of us about it. I will admit that there are lots of inconsiderate people on airplanes but out of all the different types only one group is asking for the airlines to alter their aircraft and only one group is costing the airline extra fuel. Thin, healthy people earn their junk food by exercising. Try it sometime.

by Berealistic32889 on Friday, May 01, 2009

I could not agree more. I pay a fair rate for a seat...my seat...not to be shared with someone else huge or not. How the airlines get away with inconveniencing passangers without regard to thier own comfort is disturbing. Proper seating should be made available to everyone who flies and as fliers we should be responsible to pay a fair rate for that seat (or two).
I truely hope this issue come to bear fruit and get everyone on the same plane properly.
Oh yeah, how does a blind person slow down anything since they are a preboard DUH!

by FlyHigh on Friday, May 01, 2009

Wow! What superiority complexes!

It's no one else's business how someone lives their life. Welcome to America, folks, land of free choice. If I want to eat Big Macs every day, then that's what I'll eat. Don't tell me how to live my life.

Frankly, I see thin people out there snarfing junk food more than overweight people.

And, it has nothing to do with this purely discriminatory "tax". I've been seated next to people who infringe on my space, I've been seated next to people with terrible body odor (one actually made me vomit!), I've been seated next to people who have screaming children, I've been seated next to people who people who wear more cologne (and yes, it's dangerous, I'm allergic), I've been seated next to people who were obnoxious, profane, chatty, condescending, and wore obscene clothes. One guy bugged me for 8 hours to let him hold my child. Once the guy behind me took off his shoes and put his feet on MY footrests.

The only time I ever complained was the guy who made me hurl. I quietly asked to be moved and the flight attendant obliged.

This is life, folks. You can always find something that bothers or offends you. Get over yourselves.

I offer the alternative of the "Perfect Discount." This discount can be offered to people (I think jt1234 should be offered the first one) who are thin, have no body odor, don't wear cologne, are beautiful, hairless, sweet, kind, gentle, quiet, travel with no luggage or carry-ons, are vegans, exercise, ride bicycles, drive hybrids, don't swear, wear only natural fabrics, don't have pets, never get sick, always travel alond, only drink water (no alcohol, soda, coffee, tea, etc.), earn $200,000 a year and are probably from California. These beautiful people could be given half price tickets, first class upgrades, and be carried on board by gorgeous flight attendants singing their praises.

How would that vote go?

by zzzzz78759 on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Berealistic32889 wrote:
"If embarrassment, hypertension, heart failure, type two diabetes, knee pain, back pain, shortness of breath, sleep apnea, strokes, osteoarthritis, cancer, gallbladder disease, dyslipidemia and death are not enough incentive to loose weight maybe higher tickets prices will do the trick. "

Obviously embarrassment isn't an incentive to learn proper grammar.

I know...grammar and spelling flames are wrong....

by zzzzz78759 on Thursday, April 30, 2009

"Once the guy behind me took off his shoes and put his feet on MY footrests."
Armrests...I meant armrests...it's late :-)

by zzzzz78759 on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Not to be mean but I agree with the "fat Tax" I don't like the word fat however. It should be based on Body Mass Index and we must realize there may be medical reasons that people are obese. Allowances should be made for these circumstances

by notmean on Thursday, April 30, 2009

People who keep asking for larger seats just don't get it? The problem is not with the seat, it is with your butt. Outside of North American almost everyone else in the world can fit their butts into a normal seat. Globally the average human is 5'6" and 150lbs. Sorry but that's normal/average.
Cheap seats are called cheap because they are not a nice as more expensive seats. If you want a more expensive seat get one. An airline has to sell as many tickets as possible to break even on the costs of flying. This is why they put as many seats as possible on a plane. If they were to decrease the amount of seats on the plane by making each seat a little bigger that would not reduce the cost of flying which means each ticket will have to go up in price to make up for the loss. This means that we all pay more so a few fat people can be accommodated. If you are still confused try this. If a flight costs an airline $500,000 which plane could offer a better price, one carrying 150 passengers in comfortable seats or one carrying 200 passengers in normal seats. 500,000/150=3333.33 or 500,000/200=2500. Now stop suggesting to increase the size of the seats. If embarrassment, hypertension, heart failure, type two diabetes, knee pain, back pain, shortness of breath, sleep apnea, strokes, osteoarthritis, cancer, gallbladder disease, dyslipidemia and death are not enough incentive to loose weight maybe higher tickets prices will do the trick.

by Berealistic32889 on Thursday, April 30, 2009

I'm a short fat woman who would likely come in under the pound limit for taxing, whatever that might be, but really do think that a couple extra inches of seat space would help everyone. Is there anyone of acceptable weight over 5.5 feet tall who is comfortable in the cheap seats? I sit compactly & still when I fly & bring little luggage & try not to bother anyone but have great concerns about being stuck on the runway for so long that a bathroom trip would become necessary. Maybe it wouldn't be necessary to tax the fat if airlines didn't stuff their planes so tightly. I could not afford to fly business or first class but I would be quite happy to pay more for a couple more inches leg or seat room. Does anyone think the "fat tax" is designed to benefit the customer? I am convinced it is just one more way for the airlines to add a fee & a fee that will be approved by a certain percentage of passengers. I resent ridiculous charges for checked bags even tho I've never checked more than 1 bag as I have come to believe it is "them vs us."

by katiebob on Thursday, April 30, 2009

If there is a medical reason ie. Lymphodema that causes obesity. These air travelers should be exempt from the extra tax.
They should provide a medical note to their condition.

by Deb on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Love the idea of having a few larger seats. I don't want to pay 10 times the fare for a bigger seat, and don't really care about the other ammenities for first class. Would be happy to pay more for a more comfortable seat. Could it have a bit more leg room, too, please?

by Dans Mom on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Hey, I am tired of these porkers intruding into my space. If they are taking up more than their share of space, PAY FOR IT!

by Feathermerchant on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Kindness - they are embarassing themselves. It's not my fault they are sore about their appearance. And I want them out of my seat!

by Jen on Thursday, April 30, 2009

Hooray for Rynair.........nothing against overweight, fat, or obese people...but I don't want to have them crowd an already small space....given a choice....would you rather have a slender and/or athletic-toned seatmate?

by johnvincent on Thursday, April 30, 2009

over weight people have enough problems, don't embaress them any more with a "fat tax". That is not only rude, it is mean.

by kindness on Thursday, April 30, 2009

What does it cost to ship (via any transportation mode) 150 lbs. from NY to London? What does it cost to ship 300 lbs. from NY to London? Except for airfares, the 300 lbs. will cost the shipper considerably more, I think. I rest my case.

by JKM on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

A few issues to consider, all pertaining to customer service. One could debate the etiologies of obesity ad nauseum, but why is this tax being considered? Is it a logistics consideration relative to allowable flight weight, or a customer service issue as sitting next to someone morbidly obese is causing complaints? One idea would be to design seats a bit larger (not 1st class size) and seat obese people together. Airlines could have the fare reflect that seating assignment. Creating a tax without eliminating the discomfort to all passengers only benefits the airline. If a higher fee is to be imposed for obese passengers, at least offer them a larger seat.

by Mr. Mundane on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I think fares should all be based on weight just like luggage. Each airline should have a base rate then charge extra for (to be decided) extra increments of weight.

by beachGirl50 on Thursday, April 30, 2009

I'm all for it! I weigh 117 and always travel with just one back pack which is small enough to fit under the seat in front of me. It's not fair to charge me the same as someone who brings a lot of luggage and spills out over the seat. And I do have *fat genes*It's in my DNA according to 23andMe, but I watch what I eat and exercise everyday. Genetics isn't always destiny.

by lahope on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Wow! I am so glad that finally Airlines have addressed The Fat Person issue. Yes, I vote that they need to pay more. If I have to pay more for my luggage they have to pay more for their unsafe weight.
As I said in an earlier buzz, I think one way would be to install just 4 wide seats across the back of airplanes for Fat people. They have access to the Lue without punching everyone in the shoulder as they waddle down the isle because they would already be at the back of the plane. And .....Remember....Most percentage of Fat people want to be fat as you can see how they eat so much and terrible food.
This is their fault not the people who want to be healthy and fit into a standard airline seat. But we normal people do not like the Fat spilling over into our seat, plus the odor from not bathing properly. Good Job Airlines for standing up and making the decision to charge for Fat Overweight People.

by Henry on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

If you have ever had to sit next to an overweight person, spilling and pushing over onto your miniscule seat space, for even a 5 hour flight....then you would have to agree with the policy. It doesnt matter the reason why the person is overweight...that is immaterial. The issue is simple...I paid for a tiny bit of space on a cramped cattle corral...I should not have my space minimized by an overweight person...if so,I am the one being screwed, as it were, not the fat person.

by getting skinny on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I don't understand. Will the airlines weigh us then use a tapemeasure? Who sets the standard for "fat"? Instead of worrying about fat, how about banning passengers who have body odor or really bad breath or visabilly ill.

by phlllyfilly on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

How about this idea? Everyone and their luggage get on a scale. If the total is under 250 you pay one fare..over 250 a higher fare.
Why do I have to pay a luggage fee- while my weight and luggage combined weigh much less than most people? I have had one too many uncomfortable flights as the result of a very overweight passenger next to me. Something needs to be done. Sorry if that sounds cruel....fair is fair....

by Weight watcher on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

It all depends on how RyanAir administers it. Some US airlines are now requiring (or talking of requiring) the purchase of another seat for people who take up more than one seat.

There is no easy way to deal with it, but as someone who has had to sit next to someone who was spilling into my seat--and had the gall to raise the armrest to make the spilling easier for him--I support the measures being taken.

As for the "it's familial" nonsense--maybe being chunky is inherited. Being morbidly obese is not--think about it rationally. It's only in the past 10 or 15 years that we are seeing large enough numbers of overweight kids that the medical community has to even think about HOW to define childhood obesity.

Overweight by 10, 20, 30 pounds is one thing. Smothering your seatmate is another, and it IS reasonable to require people who use more of the plane to pay for more of the plane.

by mickisue on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

With two thirds of Americans classified as overweight or obese it's absurd to have airline seats that are 17 inches across. Why not put some larger seats on planes and charge more for them?

I'm considered obese, though I can fit in a seat with the arm rest down. It is not at all comfortable. However, I certainly do not fill two seats worth of room so being charged double is hardly fair. I would gladly pay extra for a larger seat. For those who blithely say "fly first class" I would remind them again of the statistics of the number of overweight Americans. Two thirds of the populace don't have enough money to pay 5 to 10 times what a coach ticket would cost.

by tucsonflier on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Reply to Rickey - People are not fat because of their DNA, unfortunately they are fat because they eat too much. I am sure it is very hard for them. I could stand to lose a few pounds. While I am not concerned about what a person does, or is, when for the most part, it only affects them. That said, it get VERY personal when you have to sit next to an obese person on a long flight, in those tiny seats. I realize they have a hard time with it, but really, it is their issue and it is terribly unfair to inconvenience other people because they can't get their weight under control. This is not about people who simply are overweight, it is about obese people who spill over their seats and either push up against the person next to them, or actually take up the person's space. How can anyone feel that is okay?

by Regular Guy on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I flew with my mother a couple years ago and the lady next to her hung well past her seat confines. When we got to our destination my mom started to complain that her leg was sore and numb. As a physician I examined her leg and found a bruise the size of a melon on her lower thigh. I don't care how the airline fixes this problem--but this is not acceptable. If you widen the seats then everyone pays more (this discriminates against those that do watch there weight) if you charge the obese then this discriminates against them. As a physician, if this helps anyone lose some weight, I am all for it. Obesity is an epidemic worldwide and kills more people than any other source in the developed world (not just the USA).

by Bruised on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

This would be a violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). I would love to be that passenger and sue the airlines for trying something like that. Nobody would think of surcharging someone in a wheelchair or with an illness causing them to require extra seating arrangements-like mild cerebral palsy.

by sasslc on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

We are talking about two separate issues, weight and size. Airlines could charge by the weight, but I do not believe Americans would stand for that.

Regarding size, yes if you take two seats you should pay for two seats. This is seldom the case however. We complain about small seats, but if you see tickets for Airline A for $250 and Airline B for $280 you will probably buy from Airline A without taking the time to see which has a slightly larger seats. I recently saw a cool option between economy and First Class, I believe called Economy Extra. This meant they left the middle seat open, using only the window and aisle seat. This is a breath of fresh air and worth paying for in my opinion, no matter your size.

by Neil on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

What about the crying babies wrote on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, "For all you fools who think being obese is a choice - educate yourselves before you release your venom into the world."

For all except a very, very small minority of obese individuals, it is very, very well documented that obesity is completely preventable through lifestyle choices (like ones I have outlined in previous posts).

Other posters continue to talk (or, hopefully, joke) about taxing cell phone talkers and other annoying people. And again it's necessary to repeat that these other annoyances cannot be compared with weight and girth because weight has to do with fuel consumption and girth usually accompanies weight. (And a fairly normally built 6'4" guy weighing 225 lbs. is definitely less a strain on other passengers than someone of the same weight but with a more imposing girth.)

Finally, I definitely agree with "What about the crying babies???" Wednesday, April 29, 2009 post that regularly built people should not spout venom at the overweight. Being overweight has got to be tough and it takes work to work on the problem. So everyone should have compassion. At the same time, that is not a pass for the overweight not to do something about it.

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I'm all for the Fat Tax. I'm very tall and to fit into a plane I'm subject to a self imposed Tall Tax. I must buy a seat in 1st or Business class or buy 2 seats in coach so I can sit on an angle, putting my feet under the seat next to me. I would not consider imposing on the space of another passenger by sliding my feet into the foot space of a person next to me. Why fat people think it's OK to ooze into another person's seat space is beyond me. Pay for your condition like I do.

by tallguy on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Something should be done...many of us travelers don't ask to be wedged in 1/2 of our seat due to an obese person sitting next to us. Let alone, majority of the time, they have bad b.o. I am expecting other major carriers will follow suit in due time.

by Sunshine08 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

With fees being added for everything, service slipping and flights becoming a nightmare, I agree with a fee for overweight people. Most, but not all people are overweight because they choose it as a lifestyle. If that's not the case, and it is a medical issue-provide something from a Doctor, and waive the fee. Like cigarettes, maybe people would consider an alternate lifestyle.

by solsenz on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Economy seats typically range from 17 to 18-1/2 inches in width. If you're too big, you know it: aircraft are not furnished with easy chairs. Large people tend to drive larger cars. Why? They don't fit in smaller ones. So, if they don't fit into standard seats, then they should by larger ones (business or first class, although some of those aren't exactly spacious) or buy 2. And, if the flight has an empty seat, then refund the money.

The answer is not to change the seat configuration. At one point, AA removed 12 seats from coach to give everyone more legroom. Worked OK while things were good. But the lost revenue potential was too great. When things weren't so good, those seats when right back in. And that is just 12 seats per aircraft. Some posters want to change a 3x3 aircraft to 2x3. Depending on the aircraft, that could be twice that many seats, or more. And wider seats cost money. As does reconfiguring the overhead HVAC, lighting, etc. Every airline would have to do it and at the same time. And fares for everyone would have to rise as a result.

by jaded on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Wow...talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Compared to other countries, about 80% of americans are fat...so you guy that is 6'4", or you gal in a size 10 or higher be prepared to pay a "fat tax"

by Cj on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I am in love with the idea of charging for larger passengers. I'm also in love with the idea of charging anyone that needs to use the restroom, and has to cross my space...hey, I paid for it. and, if you don't board when your section boards...you get another charge. If you board early, you're inconveniencing me by making me wait for you to get settled...and if you board late, you have to cross the space I paid for. Also, if you need to get your carry-on in the middle of the flight, you'll be taking up a portion of my space...CHARGE! Also, I for one believe that I also paid for the air around my body, so smelly, noisy, sick, annoying people...You're next!

by BruceW on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

How about making the seats bigger to accomodate those "large" sized people, and just think, those of us who are not "large" would actually be comfortable in a roomy seat! What a concept...

by mondomara on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I say...get over it people. It is what it is - sometimes you stuck next to the fatty (ask to move) sometimes your stuck next to the 8 year old tap-tap-tapping on the back of your seat (tell him to cut it out) sometimes its the person with the BO or the talker...I'm not afraid to let people know how I feel on a flight. If you're being rude or obnoxious, I will definitely let you know. It's not like I'll ever see you again and hopefully you'll take my advice with you on your next flight!

by fekeykutya on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Interesting wrote on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, "Whatever someone chooses to eat is their lifestyle choice. It is not up to you, me or anyone else to tell them they need to go to the gym or throw out all their processed food and eat a healthier diet. However they choose to live their life they need to be prepared to face the consequences and pay for their lifestyle choice. The reality is most people are overweight because they choose to be. It is their decision, just like it is yours to be thin. Try not to be judgemental because someone doesn't live their life the way you do."
A good point. But if the choices I make are harmful to others, then I will obviously attempt to change. Obesity not only causes problems at the airport, but is the cause of a lot of health care dollars that drive up costs like insurance premiums for the rest of us. It is not a choice that affects only the obese individual. It affects us all. Clearly one cannot exist without having some adverse effects on the world, but living one's life to minimize them should be the goal of all.

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I understand why the airline would charge extra for extra weight.
It's purely common sense, the same way that UPS or FedEx charge according to weight. It is a business and the weight and size is a factor in this business. People choosing to take it personally is about them and their own feelings about it, but take that away and to me it makes perfect sense to charge extra.

by flyingdaskys on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I travel, on average, 2 weeks/month. I pay to be transported from Point A to Point B. And I pay for the use of the entire seat and surrounding personal space. When somebody overflows into others' space, then they need to pay for the space they use. If there happens to be an empty seat on a particular flight, then the airline can refund the second seat fare.

As a previous poster suggested, "if the armrest can be seen in the down position, then fine" but I'd like to add "and the break between the seat backs and seat bottoms can be seen," then that person should be required to buy a 2nd seat.

While I may feel bad for large people (I am certain they aren't comfortable, either), it is very uncomfortable to have to "touch" the person next to me for the entire duration! It is worse if I have a window and the large person is beside me. Or worse yet, I'm in a middle between two large individuals. Unpleasant on a short hop. Worse than miserable on a long (transcontinental or transoceanic) flight.

And, yes, safety issues are also significant. Morbidly obese people tend to be less agile than the norm. While I am not aware of any regulation that addresses this, anyone that requires more than one seat, along with the infirm, should be seated as far away from emergency exits as possible so as not to impede the quick, orderly egress of others. While I don't profess intimnate knowledge of the process, I'm guessing that when aircraft manufacturers conduct their exit tests, they don't select "people of size."

by I_Fit_in_a_Seat on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

BRAVO for the airlines charging extra for overweight people. Overweight people can usually shed pounds if they want to, so they shouldn't cry if they are charged extra. It costs the airlines more to carry them and they should help pay the cost.

by buddtt on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

As a frequent traveler, I am happy when I get my complimentary upgrade. However that's not always the case and I tremble when I see the fatties in the waiting area in fear that I may have to sit next to one. If the armrest can be seen in the down position, then fine. Even if the armrest is down but cannot be see (fat overflow) I still think that person should be required to buy a 2nd seat. I have paid for my full space and I expect to get my full space! I applaud what United has decided to do. I have complained about this many times in the past. Sorry big folks, but it's very uncomfortable to have to "touch" the person next to me for the entire duration!

by 6496 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

To jt1234. You misunderstand my post. Whatever someone chooses to eat is their lifestyle choice. It is not up to you, me or anyone else to tell them they need to go to the gym or throw out all their processed food and eat a healthier diet. However they choose to live their life they need to be prepared to face the consequences and pay for their lifestyle choice. The reality is most people are overweight because they choose to be. It is their decision, just like it is yours to be thin. Try not to be judgemental because someone doesn't live their life the way you do.

by interesting on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

So.......some say it's NOT fair for fat people to pay more, BUT, it is also NOT fair, that I paid hundreds of dollars for my ticket for one seat, but CANNOT use the full amount of my seat because some fat person is bulging over into my seat! If you require a belt extender and take up more than the ONE seat you purchased, then you should have to purchase ANOTHER seat!!! It's plain and simple.

by mtgplnr on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

To repeat from my earlier posts, buying two seats is not an acceptable be-all, end-all option in the long term. Taking up two seats during busy holiday seasons can mean someone not getting on the plane to see their family. Regrettably, it is necessary in the short term.

But the long term solution is for the obese to exercise (swimming is an option for people who are too heavy to jog, etc.) and eat healthfully (and, contrary to an earlier post, this does not mean rice cakes and white water--skim milk. It means clearing your kitchen of all processed food like TV dinners, bottled salad dressings, snack foods, pre-sweetened cereals, microwave meals, white bread, etc.--and things with trans-fats, high fructose corn syrup--and eating home-cooked foods consisting of around 80% vegetable choices. It is not hard. That is what I do and that is one reason I am thin. It is also not expensive. And if you have the mondy to fly, you have the money to eat healthfully.)

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

There are few, if any, people that can't do anything about their weight, don't give me that 'it's in their DNA' garbage.
If someone takes up more than one seat then they should pay for it. If the seat next to them is going to be empty then let them have it for free.

by Traveler on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

As I've said in previous posts, you can't compare weight/girth and other annoyances.

First, total weight is a fuel usage issue and can't be compared with other annoyances.

Second, griping about other annoyances is valid, but pointing out other people's deficiencies is a cheap way to escape fixing your own. The goal should be for every one guilty of any things like body odor, cell-phone gabbing, etc., to address them. And the goal for the obese should be to address that problem.

Short term fixes like buying two seats cannot be seen as long-term solutions.

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I disagree with the fat tax. It's a fact of life that travel is not always pleasant. Smells are more offensive and physically nauseating to me that squeezing into the seats with large people. (Especially the folks that don't bathe regularly or are coming off a week's drunk). And the gabbers and folks that talk loudly on their cell phones are a greater nuisance. Do we really want to listen to them babble on? so, let's chuck it all and have an annoyance tax. If 5 people on the plane are annoyed by you - you get a fine.

Seriously though, if comfort is truly an issue, then let's have the airlines COMPLY with OSHA's ergonomic standards for the seats! By these standards, the seats are at least 2" too narrow. But many airlines are too greedy to actually invest in solving their issues.

**Check out Midwest Airlines** all their seats are 1st class seats AND they give out freshly baked cookies (baked on the flight!) Now, that's an airline that hasn't lost the meaning of CUSTOMER SERVICE!

by Pat on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I believe if it is true that weight is the basis for not only people but the extra charge for baggage, then tickets should be issued by the pound, within say 10 pounds. Your bags are weighed at the airport, why not passengers too. Its not fair for a 100 pond person to pay the same fare as a 250 pound person. Just like luggage charges. Its not discrimination, its the reality of the cost of fuel and flying at a certain weight.

by rmz on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

It's a safety issue in addition to a space issue. Airplanes also need to be properly balanced for weight. We weigh our luggage and have to pay more for excess baggage. The same should apply to people. They should pay for two seats if they need two seats. Nobody is saying overweight people are not entitled to fly. They just should pay for the space they occupy.

by striker on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

If the butt doesn't fit,
Buy two tickets to sit.

I fit in one seat, with armrests down. Could I lose a bit of weight? Absolutely! But I fit in one seat and I don't cause the people next to me to lose part of their seats. So, bring on the mandate that unless you fit in one, you buy as many seats as needed to fully contain your body. Genetically or medically obese to the point where you can't fit in one seat? Budget for two. It is a safety and comfort issue, not a tolerance one. People should NOT be weighed, they should be aware that they can't fit in one seat already, and if the aircraft crew verifies that they can't fit, then leave the plane and rebook for two seats on another flight. I have no respect for people who OBVIOUSLY KNOW they can't get by in one seat. (I'm talking 350+ pound people who absolutely know 24 inches of perch space with armrests won't work. I have had this happen to me, where my "companion" spills into my seat and on me. I tell the crew that I had recent surgery and this is a dangerous and intolerable condition to have this pressure on me or be forced into an awkward posture for the flight. The person gets moved every time, and occasionally if the plane is full, is removed to rebook 2 seats on later flight, even though they didn't want to pay extra. Too bad, so sad. Budget or make other travel arrangements.

by Jen on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

If this happens, I would also demand a discount for my little one, but no, they'll probably justify the charge because people don't want to hear a peep from a kid. Really, this world is becoming so hateful. Whatever happened to tolerance?

by gO!beachin' on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

to ranoutofcontinents on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

yes but its easier to pick on large slow moving targets

all children should be given a shock collar like barking dogs
if they cry they get buzzed, no peeps no shock

no extra fee for the collars though

by h on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

the more you get crammed in with inconsiderate people the more harsh it gets. I had a lady change her friggin baby in the seat next to me once. lady take your adorable but stinky baby to the bathroom. I have no problems with most kids on the plane i have revised my plan. the PARENTS of the child should get the collar

by h on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

If this is because fat people are annoying when they are in your space, should there be a tax on the people who talk your ear off? The ones who bring on garlic pizza and proceed to spread it all over? The smelly ones? The kicking crying ones? There are many ways to invade one's space.

by ranoutofcontinents on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Fat people should pay for extra space. airline seats are not built for large people. I suggest a FAT section of the plane similar to what used to be a smoking section they can all cram in together and see how comfortable it is for everyone else. I am above average in size and i manage to hold myself in to my alotted space. it is not fair for someone to claim fat so they can park their rolls wherever it suits them. I recently saved a young mans life from this experience a HUGE (and i mean HUGE) couple with a lap child tried to sit in two seats they couldn't even put the armrest down i think they needed seatbelt extenders. They were in the aisle hanging off the attendants had to explain 10 times to put the armrests down and seatbelts on. I had to tell this kid to move over to another row (it was his first time flying) the fatties thanked me like i was trying to do them a favor. if you are that fat you know it buy an extra seat or ride in the cattle car on a train or bus

by h on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

How do you enforce it? make everyone get on a scale at purchase or boarding? measure their girth relative to seat size at boarding?
Charge for the seat belt extender? (some big people bring their own)...

by Biz on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I have had the experience of sharing my seat with an oversized person--thankfully my hubby let me sit on part of his seat--I could not use my arm rest-(NO MOVIE) nor my tray---and it lasted five hours--it was so not comfortable--wrote to airline and they provided me with 75.00 voucher.

by FAITH on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Yes to the Fat Tax! I just spent a four-hour flight beside an obese woman who slipped the armrest up as she sat down. Disgusting. I don't care why she's fat - she needs to pay for the seats she's using.

by viper on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I am also overweight but do not take up more than one seat. First of all, why are seatbelts not a uniform size? Yesterday on Southwest, the belts fit fine. When I flew on Thursday, the belts were shorter so I had to use a belt extender. Yesterday, a gate agent asked me if I had been told that I needed to buy an extra seat. I told him no. He didn't explain why he was asking at all and I was not charged. the man who sat next to me was not what anyone would call overweight but he was a big guy--he used more of the seat than I did but no one asked him about buying an extra seat.........who is going to decide and how are they going to do it? Or will it just be subjected to someone's whims???? The airlines have made the seats so small so that they can fit in all of the cattle........I would pay a bit extra for a larger seat (some folks have suggested 2-3 seating) for everyone's comfort. But, it is not fair to have to pay for a second seat when no one else is having to do it.

by JZ on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Sooooo tired of people claiming that obesity is "in DNA" or that people can't control it. The large majority of people CAN absolutely control their weight if only they would get off the couch and stop putting the cookies in their mouths. Those of us who are not fat WORK to be thin. If you don't want to be fat, get off your butt and do something about it. I don't mean take pills or wear magnets or put clips on your ears. Go to the gym, stop eating large portions, take the steps instead of the elevator, stop fighting for the closest parking spot and WALK. If you choose to remain fat then airlines and other transportation providers should absolutely charge taxes, double seats, whatever it takes to send the message and keep the rest of us normal-sized people comfortable. Take a look back 50 years ago at the percent of obese people vs. the percent of obese people today... that will show you what a tiny roll genes and disease and disorders play! We simply live in a LAZY society.

by SickOfExcuses on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I believe that charging for an extra seat is definitely fair. They were not born with this condition, and at any moment they can take charge of themselves to change it. Obesity is not related to DNA or genetics, it's a matter of willpower and education. Know what you are eating, and burn more calories than you take in. Ditch the car for a bicycle, and ditch the cheeseburger for an apple. It's very simple, but no one takes personal responsibility these days so it's hard for them to comprehend.

by extra seat is fare on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

This is all very interesting. From a person who is overweight, but not too big to fit into my one seat. Whether someone is large because of genetics or diet and exercise, the reality is it's their lifestyle choice. You cannot tell someone that they should eat rice cakes and drink white water (skim milk) or join a health club so that they can pay a lower fare. The reality is it is a lifestyle choice, much like being gay, married or having children. All that being said, if you cannot fit into the one seat you paid for, you should pay for a larger seat or buy a second seat. Like someone else said before, each individual knows how much they weigh and whehter they can fit into a single coach seat long before they purchase a ticket. I don't have a problem with the idea of having a weight regulation for each passenger and their baggage. The problem I have is who determines what weight parameters will be. The parameters between men and women would be stark and how would you determine what the cutoff should be before someone has to pay extra? It seems like this issue is opening up a larger can of worms than the airline is equipped to address.

by interesting on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I used to be one of the people that was very uncomfortable in the airline seats and yes, I am over 50 too. I've just lost 59 pounds since November 2008 and would love to help anyone else lose it too. FAST. Less than $10 a day and when followed, this program WORKS. Traveling to Hawaii to celebrate! I tried everything and nothing else worked for me. I have 25 people on the program and collectively, we've lost 500 lbs to date. Yippee! Here's to better health for all!

by Thinner Traveler on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

@AFrequentFLyer: that is a very intelligent solution. Well thought!

by FurryFlyer on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

people the airlines have tricked us all, we big or small aren't the problem but the airlines, they 1st put way to many seats on the airplane to get more money, than they say well we have to charge extra from baggage, then they say well if we can get away with that lets charge them to eat and now drink on the plane now. the airlines will noe stop do you think it wil stop with big people next it will be your kids weather new born or not all ages will be charged if we was the people don't stop the airlines.

Don't you people see what they are doing divide and conquer

by listen on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Rob on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 said, "Well, why stop at fat people. Why not tall people. I fly on planes all the time and I hate having their knees banging the back of my seat. And what about those pesky kids who make noise and cry through the entire flight. then again by natrue men are bigger then women. So maybe we should tax men because after all they are bigger and weigh more? And what about those people who look like and smell like they haven't bathed in a month. Why not tax them also? Oh and yes let's not forget the disabled. Let's tax them also. All that extra staff that is needed to transport them on and off the airplane. And what about all the old people we know how long it takes them to board. Hey lets just tax everybody. And come on people when was the last time someone or some luggage was banned from a commercial aircraft because there was a fat peson on board? People wake up and smell the roses. Discrimination is discrimination call it anything you want but it is still discrimination. United and Southwest should be ashamed of themselves and I am proud to say I don't fly them. I am surprised the American Disability Act people haven't gotten after them. After all being overweight has been designated a disability" and also posed other reasons like medication why people gain weight.

First, people who gain weight for unpreventable reasons are a very, very small percentage of the obese. It should not be used as an excuse to give all the other obese people who could have prevented their condition a pass. And the only people who are (or should be) designated disabled due to obesity are those very, very few who could not have prevented it.

Second, being tall, old, etc. are not preventable conditions like most cases of being obese are, so cannot be brought into the equation. It's a completely different thing. And it has also been addressed in earlier posts for those who have been reading carefully.

Third, reading previous posts carefully would also have turned up my earlier post which said that buying a second seat can prevent someone from getting on a flight during busy holiday seasons and is thus not a good solution.

Fourth, as I have addressed in a previous post, people with body odor, unruly children, etc. should also work to fix those problems, just as obese people should work to fix theirs. But weight directly affects fuel consumption and needs to be treated accordingly.

Fifth, Outraged said on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, "That is ridiculous to weigh in at the airport! People buy their tickets based on what they can afford ahead of time, no some circus guess my weight regulations! How absurd!" A lot of exclamation points, no reason or rationale (unlike the excellent, reasoned approach of "A frequent flyer" on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, who said, "You weigh less or carry less baggage? You pay less. You weigh more or carry a ton of luggage? You pay more. Easy. Simple. Not discriminatory. Effective." Thus no reason to take Outraged's comment seriously.

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Rob said on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, "And come on people when was the last time someone or some luggage was banned from a commercial aircraft because there was a fat peson on board?"

It happens ALL the time.

by jt1234 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

As a physician, I am sick and tired of people saying it is there DNA....years ago we did not have such an obesity epidemic!!! It boils down to calories in, and calories out. Everyone should be weighed (with their luggage) and pay a flat rate...plus extra for extra pounds whether it is coming from their poor life decisions or packing too much in their luggage!! I am tired of sitting next to someone who basicall is sitting on top of me the whole trip!!

by Sick n Tired on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

One final thought: If the flat-rate were ever implemented, the airlines would have to have some sort of seat available to accommodate large passengers. Yes, it would cost them a few seats per flight, but they should be turning a better profit from the flat-rate approach. Thus, it would balance out.

by AFrequentFlier on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

P.S. Is RyanAir charging all the drunken Irishmen a surcharge for disgusting the passengers next to them too? Let's go after all alcoholics too, not just Irish ones. Isn't that fair?, so what if it is a disease and they cannot help themselves, sober up or don't fly.
Or how about those with extreme body odor?
Try sitting next to THAT instead of someone "spilling over" on you!
Or how about children screaming, kicking and/or having a tantrum.
People with colds/flu illness spreading their germs...let's just tax everyone!....but like class action suits, no one gets the benefit but RyanAir and the lawyers!!! I can't believe anyone would go for this.

by Outraged on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I am always asked to move seats so that I can sit by the two large passengers. Although I am never thrilled with it I do it because I understand that I am small and it will not be as uncomfortable to me as it would be to others. I personally think I should get a voucher or a discount for being that passenger that has to sit does not get to choose my seat. I know that they cannot help their weight. What I cant stand is the sloppy ones who through their wrappers and their food on the floor when they are done. Those individuals (both big and small) should be charged a tax for all the cleaning.

by skinny on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

That is ridiculous to weigh in at the airport! People buy their tickets based on what they can afford ahead of time, no some circus guess my weight regulations! How absurd!

by Outraged on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

So, how does this surcharge immediately benefit the person next to someone "spilling over" into the seat next to them? Like RyanAir will lower its fares..lol..Madoff must be their consultant and the public is falling for this just because they are trying to capitalize on something that bothers the public. If there is a fat tax, then that person should have an empty seat next to them and what if the person next to them is a friend or family member and doesn't mind them "spilling over into their seat" what then?? This is outrageous! It is a handicap and this is discrimination.
If they can fit in a seat and use a window or aisle seat to lean away from their neighboring seat, leave them alone, if not and need to buy a second seat then that is reasonable if they are unable to fit into one seat.

by Outraged on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I agree with fjstrobel. Just have a platform that you and your luggage stand on at the airport. No one sees the number except you, and, even if someone did, they wouldn't know how much of that was your luggage and how much of it was you. A machine spits out a fare based on the total weight.

It IS a matter of fuel used to transport. More weight = more fuel. More fuel = higher cost to fly that aircraft to its destination. This concept is already used in cargo transport....that's why you pay different prices to FedEx something, depending on the weight.

On a personal note, I'm carrying a few extra pounds myself. My butt still fits in the airline seats, though, and it did even when I was 8 months pregnant and flying across country. However, I have had the unfortunate experience of being next to someone who was oozing into my space. This person didn't even realize that I had to use only 2/3 of my seat because they were coming over into the seat I paid for. Finally, I put my elbows out to the edges of my seat, and they had to ooze into the aisle instead.

So put me down as one in favor of the flat-rate approach. You weigh less or carry less baggage? You pay less. You weigh more or carry a ton of luggage? You pay more. Easy. Simple. Not discriminatory. Effective.

by AFrequentFlier on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

If they charge a fat tax, shouldn't they also refund some people's money if they weigh less than the average for their height/weight?

by chriswg75 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Oh and their are reasons why people gain weight other then just plain eating more. Some people retain a lot of water from certain medications. Others may be hypothroid and gain weight eating very little. Some suffer from side effects of medication which stimulates hunger. Most notably the lateest antipsychotic medications which causes significant weight gain. Disabilities may force an otherwise active person to be unable to excercise like they once did causing excess weight gain.

Let's face it people. You have no idea why someone is fat and many people have habits or do things that annoy others and that is just part of life. So get over it and try and think about the other person and the next time you see that fat person have some compassion, because as shown in these comments discrimination against fat people is alive and well.

by rob on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I am a very frequent int'l flyer and the point I haven't seen is that people much larger than their seats will have trouble getting up and out in case of emergency. Also it's not weight it's girth. Seat belts should be a size to fit the seat without overlap. If you need an extension you need a bigger seat which should be the last row in the plane and at an extra charge.

by chessa on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

No problem paying a "fat tax," if they'll make the seats bigger to accomodate the larger body size.

by Dans Mom on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I agree with Chessa. I've been hemmed in by fat people on both sides, and it is excruciating, especially on long flights. It's not discriminating to have a weight or girth limit for a particular seat; it's just reality. There should be some larger seats that cost more because of the space and weight issues (reality again - they charge for extra luggage, because it costs more to fly with extra weight, and it takes up more space). I'm sure the people who spill over into my space are no more comfortable than I am.

by salgal on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

It is a common misconception, and a lie really, that fat people can't help it because it's in their DNA. True, there may be some hereditary issues, but nothing that proper dieting and some serious exercise can't fix. If you disagree, watch "The Biggest Loser". Every single person there loses weight. Why? Because eating right and exercising like crazy works! Saying they are helpless because it's in their genes is pure ignorance. Fact: eating the proper foods, with the proper calories, and burning calories with continuous, rigerous excercise will cause a person to LOSE WEIGHT. Yeah right, it's only in their DNA, as they sit on the couch eating junk food and never so much as touching a peice of exercise equipment. Genes only play a part, the rest is up to them. If they are fat, it's because they choose to be. Seriously - watch "The Biggest Loser". You'll learn.

by hopelessromantic on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Have to agree with hopelessromantic. Genetics may pre-dispose one to be overweight but ONLY eating more calories than one expends can cause weight gain. If anyone discovers a way to make people gain weight without eating let us in on the secret - you can solve world hunger. Therefore, overweight is a condition of choice, and as such should be subject to the same conditions of other choices such as checking a 75 pound bag. I was once seated in a window seat on a SEA-PIT flight on which my middle seat mate was a woman who needed maintenance to come aboard and add a 3 ft. seat belt extender to allow her to fasten the belt. Needless to say I suffered for six hours due to her choice to fly grossly obese. My wife flew 1st on a PDX-DAL AA with a nearly 500 pound female seatmate (not a joke.) The woman could not even use a tray and balanced her meal on her astounding gut. AA would not accomodate her request to move and she literally could not raise her arms or leave her seat the entire flight. AA was unsymathetic to a request for a price adjustment citing "discriminatory treatment" if they had refused to allow the 500 pounder to board. So who's paying the "unfair" tax in those cases?

by Orkestrell on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

30,000 out of 100,000 voting for a fat tax is not overwhelming. 70,000 not voting for a fat tax is.

by stock on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Well, why stop at fat people. Why not tall people. I fly on planes all the time and I hate having their knees banging the back of my seat. And what about those pesky kids who make noise and cry through the entire flight. then again by natrue men are bigger then women. So maybe we should tax men because after all they are bigger and weigh more? And what about those people who look like and smell like they haven't bathed in a month. Why not tax them also? Oh and yes let's not forget the disabled. Let's tax them also. All that extra staff that is needed to transport them on and off the airplane. And what about all the old people we know how long it takes them to board. Hey lets just tax everybody. And come on people when was the last time someone or some luggage was banned from a commercial aircraft because there was a fat peson on board? People wake up and smell the roses. Discrimination is discrimination call it anything you want but it is still discrimination. United and Southwest should be ashamed of themselves and I am proud to say I don't fly them. I am surprised the American Disability Act people haven't gotten after them. After all being overweight has been designated a disability.

by rob on Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Hey, don't blame the babies, they can't just pop their ears like we can they cry. It's the parents who need to be blamed if warranted. Although I also hate it when people lay the seats back, they are there for a passengers comfort, so the airlines are the ones to blame not the passenger. I had a extremely large woman in a seat beside me & I had to set on the edge of my seat just so her (fat) would not keep touching me. Yes, if you can not fit into one seat an extra charge should be charged.

by kkat on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

"I recently flew Southwest and purchased two seats. It worked out fine! I was able to "spread out" and not have anyone invade MY space. We don't "need" the moralizing about fat--genetics, DNA, bad eating, etc. Believe me, the prejudice against fat is-pardon the pun-immense. Paying for an extra seat is one small advantage on our overcrowded, uncomfortable (for anyone), coach section on airplanes." by fatso lady on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Purchasing two seats, especially during busy holiday periods can mean that someone else doesn't get a seat to go see their family. So not only do we need moralizing about obesity, but we need action--from the obese--to correct a very solvable and very preventable problem. Then two problems will be solved: 1) obesity, and 2) the need to "moralize" about it.

by jt1234 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I find it odd that there are so many 'genetically' fat people these days. I don't think it's a genetic disposition or we would see it in animals too, right? And the only animals that are obese are the animals that eat human food- dogs, squirrels etc. hrmmmm... I conclude that people need to educate themselves on nutrition- REAL nutrition, not S*&% that comes out of a package that claims to be high fiber etc etc. And until they do that, they will be fat and it will be a choice. And so they should be charged for the weight they bring on board.

by eatfromtheearthyo on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

As a former pilot (in my healthier days) I am aware of flying and weight limitations. The only fair way for any airline is to charge by the pound. The passanger need only to get on a floor scale that includes himself and his luhggage and carry- ons. A computer can then spit out the charge. Fare discounts and specials can still be entered by the attendant if need be.

No one need see the total weight or total charge except the traveler. You pay for what you use!

The other side of the coin is that the airlines, knowing that some passangers are 'larger'... and are paying for larger accomodations could provide accomodations for them (larger seats)!

by fjstrobel on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I recently flew Southwest and purchased two seats. It worked out fine! I was able to "spread out" and not have anyone invade MY space.
When we take away all the moralizing above about "fat people" what remains is that we "fat people" also have the advantage of not having anyone invading OUR space either. I'll pay for THAT. It's like paying for business class or first class. It's a choice to be COMFORTABLE
Incidently, Southwest will refund you the cost of the extra seat if they haven't booked every seat on the flight--hence, one gets a seat empty (usually the "dreaded" middle seat) next to you, and a possible refund.
We don't "need" the moralizing about fat--genetics, DNA, bad eating, etc. Believe me, the prejudice against fat is-pardon the pun-immense. Paying for an extra seat is one small advantage on our overcrowded, uncomfortable (for anyone), coach section on airplanes.
The airlines aren't going to make the seats more comfortable for ANYONE--17 inches wide in coach is the maximum--We're all uncomfortable and have our space invaded. Overweight people can do something about it.
Does this mean I'm FOR the FAT TAX? No, but buying an extra seat is one way around the fact that the airlines continue to pack us in.

by fatso lady on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I vote yes for the "fat tax". Although I have sympathy for extremely over weight people. I do not care to share a seat with them. I have had to spend several hours sitting on one hip because my "neighbors" body!!!filled a third of my seat. I ask, if you are extremely overweight, why don't you have some understanding of of what its like for others! This situation is not just on planes, its at concerts,events,ect,too

by DD on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

This whole topic is a joke, as is the idea that "fat people ooze into my space, making my flight more uncomfortable." Well, you know what makes MY flight more uncomfortable? The screaming babies, the toddler behind me kicking my seat unceasingly for 5 hours, the loud talkers who think I give a flying flip about the fact they are the top salesman in their region for selling flanges, the people who don't wear deodorant or brush their teeth, the people who wear so much cologne and perfume I can't breath without burning my esophagus, the people who snore, the thin people who act like the seat is their freaking BED and bend themselves into it while poking me with their elbows and knees...shall I go on? The point is, people, we live on this planet and we are not alone. Get it? We have to deal with these issues on every other mode of transportation, and if it bothers you don't fly or be prepared to pay for a private pod.

by Vel on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Everyone should weigh in, and be charged for their weight

by rgn on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Vel said, "This whole topic is a joke, as is the idea that "fat people ooze into my space, making my flight more uncomfortable." Well, you know what makes MY flight more uncomfortable? The screaming babies, the toddler behind me kicking my seat unceasingly for 5 hours, the loud talkers who think I give a flying flip about the fact they are the top salesman in their region for selling flanges, the people who don't wear deodorant or brush their teeth, the people who wear so much cologne and perfume I can't breath without burning my esophagus, the people who snore, the thin people who act like the seat is their freaking BED and bend themselves into it while poking me with their elbows and knees...shall I go on? The point is, people, we live on this planet and we are not alone. Get it? We have to deal with these issues on every other mode of transportation, and if it bothers you don't fly or be prepared to pay for a private pod." Those are all valid gripes, but pointing out other people's deficiencies is a cheap way to escape fixing your own. The goal should be for every one guilty of any of the gripes you've pointed out to address them--and for obese people to address their problem--or pay.

by jt1234 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Actually, I've believed we should pay airfares according to weight. Weight distribution in an airplane is a crucial part of flying. If the center of gravity moves by a few inches in a jumbo jet, it can destabilize the plane. It would make passenger seating a little more predictable. Very few airlines are profitable, and what they carry in the underbelly actually is cargo, and helps pay for the costs per flight (about $100,000 last I read). Although not commonly viewed this way, passengers are cargo as well.

by WorldTraveler on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I flew in the air force and later for the Interior Dept. in the U.S. In the AF we were grounded if we we're overweight. In Interior it meant we could carry less cargo if someone was too heavy. It's not a matter of DNA it's a matter of weight and who pays to haul it from point A to B. Common sense tells you someone who's thin should not pay the same as someone who is overweight. You can reverse the agrument about fat people being decriminated against and say that for many years thinner folks have unjustifiably been subsidizing the weighter ones. So let's be fair about it and pay for your extra bagage. It would also be an inscentive for some to lose kilos. They'd be happier, healthier, and maybe even a little less grumpy.

by fairness on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Most airlines already have seats to accomodate large people...it's called first class. You know how big you are when you purchase your ticket and if you don't fit in a coach seat then buy a first class or two coach seats. Airlines enforce all sorts of rules in areas such as smoking, overheard luggage, number and size of carryones, exit row etc. If a large passenger didn't purchase the right kind of ticket then the airline has responsibility for the safety and comfort of ALL passengers to have that person either pay for first class or two coach seats. If I pay for a coach seat then I should have the entire space that I paid for and not 3/4 because a large person sits next to me and their body fat crosses the arm rest into the space I paid for. That is not discrimination. It's enforcing rules that apply to everyone------ something every business faces.

by rar on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

If people don't want a bigger than normal person next to them, then demand that the airlines make these seats bigger. I am not overweight, but if I were, and would have to pay such a discriminatory fee, then I would also demand a child free and pet free flight. I find it more annoying having to hear a baby crying throughout the flight and see spoiled unsupervised brats up and down the aisles than an overweight person.

by twospirits on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

It's clear that many of you have never been stuck in a middle seat with a very obese person who requires that the arm rest be up in order to fit into the seat and ooze into your seat. Very obese people require more than one seat and should pay for two seats. Typical American overweight is not what the airlines are talking about. Very, very few flyers fit into the very obese category.

by GW on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

As a frequent flyer I can't tell you how many times an overweight flyer has tried to "share" my seat. While I sympathize with overweight flyers I don't like my rights and space violated. Why do they also seem to book last minute and get the middle seat - thereby invading 2 other flyers space??? I pay for a whole seat and expect to get one. I am not for the airline benefiting by charging a tax for over weight people - what do the flyers who are placed next to them get??? If they need 2 seats they should pay for 2 seats or fly first class where the seats are larger.

by Frequent Flyer on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I thought the fat tax was unfair until I got stuck next to a fat person. I paid for a whole seat and should not have to settle for 3/4 of a seat because a fatty is next to me. Fortunately, there were empty seats on the plane.

by ruby on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

ABSOLUTELY FAT PEOPLE SHOULD PAY EXTRA!!!! And, we're at it, they should be banned from using Disabled parking spaces as well.

by ChrisO on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Airlines sell seats. Buy one, get one. Need a bigger one, buy a bigger one (or two). I am very tall, and usually buy Economy Plus on United to get the extra leg room. Maybe airlines that with 3-3 seating should put in a few rows of 2-3 seating, with the 2 side having seats bigger than regular coach, but smaller than the 2-2 seats in first class. Then charge more, like United does for Economy Plus.

by Flier on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I am NOT for this tax - It is discriminatory and hurtful! B.M.I. is above 30?
This is just one more way for airlines to make extra money. It is more crowded on planes because they have become reconfigured to add more seats. Even "normal" sized people are uncomfortable-especially when the RUDE person in front of you puts their seat back all the way!
Next we will be charging extra for crying babies because they take up sound space!
I say start with the people who take up WAY TOO MUCH room with carry on luggage!

by library_goddess on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I would prefer that any passenger that encroaches on another because of their excessive weight be charged for two seats. I have been to many third world countries and never see obese people. Could it be that fat people just eat too much?

by JK on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

First, it is true that some people cannot help being obese. But--this is a very small percentage. The vast majority of obese people are that way because of their diet and (lack of) exercise habits. If any obese person has ever set foot in a single fast food restaurant, a family restaurant chain like the olive garden, tgi Fridays, etc., eaten a piece of white bread, had a bowl of pre-sweetened cereal, had a frozen food entre, eaten a potato chip, or sat on the couch on a day that they did not get out and exercise (and it is possible for virtually all obese people to exercise one way or another--e.g. swimming if their joints can't handle jogging, etc.), they absolutely cannot say their condition is genetic or inevitable. The extra weight they add to a plane which results in my bag being left behind is completely inexcusable. If any obese person truly eats 100% natural, home-cooked food that is 80% vegetables in reasonable portions totaling no more than 2500 calories a day, has a kitchen that is completely free of processed foods, trans fats, high-fructose corn syrup, high-glycemic index foods, etc. and they truly get out and exercise whenever possible, we can talk. Otherwise they have no business complaining that they can't help it (including economic excuses--because even though organic food is expensive, conventional produce is completely affordable to all who can afford to eat fast food. And if you can afford to fly, you can afford to eat a healthy diet.). Otherwise they should be subject to weight requirements. For example, each person is allotted a certain total weight which is the total of their body weight and luggage. zzzzz78759 has a very good point about defining specifics, but creative people can certainly devise a good system. Meanwhile, obese people, get your kitchens and exercise regimens in order.

by jt1234 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I'm not a thin person, and at first, I used to think this was discrimination...then my husband (also not thin), clarified this point for me. The fact is, my rearend takes up my seat and no one elses. I do not invade a fellow passengers' paid for seat. My husband retold the story of how he was seated next to a woman whose girth was so large that putting down arm rest was impossible, and he was only able to utilize 2/3rds of the seat for which he paid to expecting to utilize the whole seat. So yes, I think you should have to buy two seats if you're going to invade someone else's space.

And I've pitched fits about people who bring on their infant carriers, expecting to be able to hold them the entire flight. .

by ColNFNY on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

For all you who like to throw obesity in the face of America I encourage you to look at this http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2399352.ece

by MattG on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I'd be all for the way Southwest does it, too - if they actually DID it! Flew on a Southwest flight yesterday on which there was an obese guy on the aircraft seated in the center of a group of 3 seatsso that he invaded TWO people's space! As for its being genetic.....my understanding is that excess weight is a result of genetic or medical conditions only about 5% of the time it occurs.

by RogelioB on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

IF YOU ARE CHARGING FOR AN INFANT SEAT, CHARGE FOR ANY OTHER 'EXTRA' SEATING. FAIR IS FAIR.

by heftynot on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

A few years back my husband was able to use just part of his seat, because the person next to him was using the other part of it. We applied for a refund, and got a $200 credit. Why not? I don't care if it's genetic or not, one of us has to pay. Why should I pay for part of a seat I can't use, while the overweight person uses my space for free?

by JHG on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

If there was such a thing as the fat gene it would be called the "American Gene" because the vast majority of the world population is unaffected by it. Only people living with in 100 miles of a KFC seem to be affected by this gene. It is true that some people, because of their genetics, gain fat more easily than others but these genes can be defeated by having a healthy diet combined with exercise. Just like how some people are not as smart as others because of their genetics, but these genes can be defeated by pursuing an education. Being fat is not a not a disability like being blind, it's a choice like eating a cheeseburger and watching TV. Now let us just forget for a moment how much space fat takes up on an airplane and instead lets focus on how much extra fuel it takes to carry American fat through the sky. Or how about the fat affects the physics of an aircraft in flight when there are several fat people on board. For a major carrier it is like carrying a car on board if you combine all the extra weight. But if you don't like the idea of a fat tax perhaps some people would find it more fair if the airlines were to set their ticket prices based on butts. If a person has two butts worth of fat they should have to pay for two tickets. It's only fair since they take up twice the space, twice the fuel, and probably twice the snacks in the flight.

by Berealistic32889 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I'm all for the way Southwest does it- if you can't fit in one seat, then you have to buy two. Then they refund the cost of the second seat if the plane doesn't fill up. Also, we're not talking about people who are slightly overweight, but people who cannot fit into the seat and put both armrests down. It's really about making sure that all passengers are comfortable, including the heavier ones.

by mathgeek on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

This is simple common sense, and has nothing to do with discrimination. If someone takes up more than one seat, what can happen? Maybe the debate should be framed this way: should passengers who pay for a seat be allowed to use it if the person next to them takes up part of it, or should they be required to use only the part available to them?

by cgsc on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

What about if every passenger had a "flight allowance" of 250 lbs or some other predetermined total weight amount. If you plus your luggage weigh in at more than that, you pay $X per pound over. This is how the post office, Fed Ex, UPS and all other shipping companies work. Shipping costs are determined largely by weight, and somewhat by volume. People are basically living, breathing freight.

by fairflying on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

If you use more of a product, then you should pay more. The reason you need more product (ie. I'm fat because of my DNA), should not matter. If a skinny person decides to sit with both arms stretched out, and take 3 seats, then he or she should pay for those extra seats.

by whynot? on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Hey...blame the airlines for squeezing us. Maybe the solution is to have three widths of seats so they can accommodate thin, average and extra large people. Of course, a 600 lb. person would be difficult or impossible to fit. What about people who have very long legs? They are terribly squeezed; no matter their width.

by normalwhatsnormal? on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

OK, so what about overweight people who are traveling with underweight people or children? Will it be averaged? What about pregnant women? What about cancer patients who are on steroids?

Do we give a discount for children? My daughter is only 40lbs so she should get about 120 lbs worth of credit, right?

And where do you put the limit? 150lbs? 200lbs? 500lbs?

I think we should vote on an odor tax. It's a lot harder to get away from than lumpy butts.

Slippery slope, people.

by zzzzz78759 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

This is the most blatantly discriminatory thing I have ever seen. It's easy to pick out another group and treat them differently until YOU'RE the one in the hot seat. (pun intended)
Apart from business people, most of us only fly a couple times a year, if that, for holidays or vacation. It's such a tiny part of our lives -- and most flights only last a few hours -- couldn't we afford to be a little more tolerant? Geez.

by diversityone on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I wouldn't be against charging more based on weight IF the airlines really were worried about fuel. I live in Chicago and it costs me more to fly out of Ohare direct to most locations than to drive to Milwaukee and fly out of there, even though most of those flights go through Chicago or another hub. I pay for the "convenience" of a direct flight. It costs more for the airlines in fuel, pilots, planes, etc to fly connecting flights, yet they charge more for the direct flights. So I dont buy this added fees based on oversized passenger bit.
I do think it would be fair to offer a per lb fare, as in "fly from Chicago to New York for $2/lb". That includes your own weight as well as your bags. You lock in the rate when you buy the ticket, maybe pay a deposit, then pay the rest once you're at the airport and are weighed. Just a thought.

by chriswg75 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Are fat people really born fat? Is there a correlation between the lack of public transit, abundance of cars, and obesity in America while Europeans and Asians both walk a lot more and have a lot more fit populations?

Being fat is not a disability nor being discriminated against. It's something that can be changed with regular diet and exercise.

by suspicious on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I'm all for the fat tax! Many times have I seen someone who's grossly overweight board a plane. Immediately I think to myself, "I know (s)he's going to be sitting next to me." And sure enough, this is case. Nothing like having someone's fat rolls invade my personal space. Even better when the person eats or knits and his/her arms keep hitting me. My favorite though is when someone raises the armrest in attempt to make more room for his/her wide backside. Um...I don't think. Bulkheads are the best solution to this.

As far as DNA goes....I've got news for you: there are wonderful drugs and medical devices, i.e. lap bands, that can aid in weight loss. People need to quit playing the role of the victim and take some responsibility in their lives. There's no such thing as being helpless.

by badnews001 on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

First the airlines wanted to get more people on their planes so they made more seats and less space. I'm not fat but I do not like the lack of space between my seat and the seat in front of me. I have to consider what I'd be willing to pay to have some of those roomier seats back. The replacement seats weren't made for people, let alone overweight ones. And how would the cutoff be determined? Would everyone be weighed or would it be by sight? I have a feeling this is far too thorny for any public serving company to take on. I do agree that we should be concerned about the weight of the plane. I find myself nervous when I see a passenger trying to squeeze a carryon bag on the plane that he can barely drag along. Even with the rules there's always a few that manage to work around them.

by Tiff on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

In their DNA??? Come on! We've all seen those horrible photos and films of the Holocaust victims - did you ever see a FAT victim in those films? NO - If we are to believe you "ricky", then those poor 6 million victims did not have "fat" DNA. MY POINT IS - The vast majority of fat people are fat because of their own actions - poor eating habits and lack of exercise. If I buy a seat on a plane, that is MY seat for the duration of the flight. If some fat person overflows into it by say...20%, then I should expect a 20% refund on the seat price, right?

by Get a Life Fatties on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

While I know this is a touchy subject, truth of the matter is, if you need to take up more than one seat on a plane, you should have to pay for it. It stinks, I know, but if another person cannot realistically fit in the seat next to a person because that person cannot fit in their seat with the armrest down, they inconvenience the person whose seat is obstructed as well as the airline. If two economy seats are cheaper than one business or first class seat, well... go for it. And if a person who fits into one seat wants to spead out, they too should buy two seats. Seems simple to me.

by Fly Away on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

There is a huge (no pun intended) difference between being somewhat overweight and needing to occupy two seats. If you cannot fit in a seat WITH THE ARMRESTS DOWN, then you need to buy two seats, or buy a seat in first class. Otherwise, you are encroaching on the space of someone who is entitled to his or her own seat, having bought exactly that. This is not a question of discriminating against larger people; but of getting what you've paid for.

by Catparent on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

While I agree with "dawnflyer" that aircraft are rated for weight, I think his/her view is somewhat myopic insofar as all commercial passenger aircraft also carry mail and other cargo. If you market yourself as a PASSENGER aircraft, then if the aircraft is overweight due to passenger & luggage weight, then the cargo should be the first to stay behind; it should be designated as a lower priority. (Likewise if you designate yourself as a cargo carrier, and you carry passengers if space/weight permits, then it's the passengers who should go if the aircraft it overweight.)

I believe that PASSENGER airlines must accommodate passengers for the fee stated, no matter what their weight. But I ALSO feel it's OK to weigh them and their luggage. They do this for small aircraft all over the world. I've many times had to get on a scale with my luggage prior to boarding an aircraft. That's tells them how much cargo they can carry also.

I think the current seat widths on domestic aircraft are TOO SMALL, and I'm not talking seat width, necessarily, but shoulder width. Men's shoulders are wider than their bottoms and men's shoulders extend into the seat space next to theirs in many cases. So will we charge MEN more than WOMEN because of this? No. The airlines should provide sufficient seat space for the average sized passenger's butt and shoulders, then charge whatever it costs for transporting them.

If people are TRULY large, they should be charged for 2 seats. I think it's OK to both weigh people and see if they can fit into a template for width to determine how many seats. But how the heck could you do this when people buy their tickets online?

by Metri on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I am in favor of United/Southwest's ruling of asking the person to purchase an adjacent seat or upgrading to first class. If I pay for a seat, that space is mine. I don't need someone's extra weight spilling over, especially on really long trips.
If you look at the trend of obesity in this country it's appalling. Airlines are charging 1st and 2nd bag fees to make up for gas consumption, but the problem is the passengers are the ones gaining weight, not the bags.
People should be allowed to bring a set amount of weight onto the plane (their weight and baggage). If they go over charge them.
As for people claiming its genetic... yeah right. Most of the weight problems are stemming from poor eating habits and lack of exercise, any exercise (like walking up 1 flight of stairs).

by Think Harder on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Friend...you sound angry. Move on or move out! LOL

by travel on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Let's just give them a pig patch to sew on to their clothes so we can easily distinguish them from the other people we hate like those who are wearing the Star of David or pink triangles. Have people lost their minds?! Been fat - been skinny - same person with a good heart and a bright mind. People really need to get a clue...

by ManOMan on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I am sure the same people who complain about "fat" people oozing over in to their space are the same ones who sit beside me and sprawl over both armrests and ooze in to my space with their rudeness.

by Jewels on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Charge all the skinny people more, because they complain so much !

by not skinny on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

I have been seated next to or between very large individuals. They ooze into my space and it makes a trip very uncomfortable. Airline seats are not comfortable to begin with and this just makes it the trip unbearable. I have even sat in the stewardess's jump seat because it was so unbearable. If we have to pay for extra baggage, why shouldn't they pay for excess weight?

by Danny on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Although it is a sensitive area and I am certain that no pilot, crew member or airline wants any passenger to feel embarrassed or targeted, the truth remains that ALL aircraft are certified to carry a certain amount of weight. Period. If the aircraft is over the weight limit due to passenger size and/or luggage load something or someone has to leave the aircraft prior to flight. Most of the time it's luggage.

The truth behind these charges is not about hurting any person or group of people. It is about complying with the aircraft restrictions and the FAA regulations. From a strictly weight perspective let's think about this... an aircraft can carry X amount of pounds of cargo (people, luggage, etc.). It costs the aircraft Y dollars to travel from airport KABC to airport KRST. The cost per pound of cargo is Y dollars divided by X pounds. So... a piece of cargo that weighs 150 pounds costs 1/2 as much to transport as a piece of cargo that weighs 300 pounds. (Twice the weight, twice the cost).

Now, the airlines have the problem of addressing the cost per pound with humans that don't always think and feel rationally. It is said that perception is reality. Humans perceive that additional charges due to excess weight are about lots of things such as discrimination, control, etc. Perception in this area is the one thing airlines can not control. And, frankly, that sucks because the last thing this is about is discrimination towards people that are extremely large. But most of you reading this will disagree with me.

I, for one, would be more than willing to get on a scale before I get in a plane. Safety MUST come first and if an airline or a pilot wants to know the exact weight of the cargo (including people!) to be sure we are flying safely, I'm all for it.

Just for full disclosure... I am a pilot. I fly hot air balloons - it is a different type of aircraft but we are subject to the same type of weight restrictions as every other certified aircraft flying. And yes, very large passengers are a concern to us, as well. There is no easy solution and no easy way to have the conversation with someone who is larger than the average person.

I do hope that America, as a whole, will strive to live healthier lives. Most of us could stand to loose a few pounds and I, for one, am putting down the cookies now.

by dawnflyer on Tuesday, April 28, 2009

why would we want to hurt any class of people americans we have problems in our minds. we want to control people here and all over the world we have proved that since america became a place that had people in it. so sad and yes I am a fat person and an old person and a divorced person and a mom and many more things pick one. Its all coming in time look out you maybe next.

by friend on Monday, April 27, 2009

I am close to it. I have a little pot belly but definitely not considered fat by North American standards!

by hate fat on Monday, April 27, 2009

Now, now hate fat. Don't be a hater. Wait until you're in your 50's and see how hard it is to shed those pounds!!

by Susan on Monday, April 27, 2009

If you want more room than a standard seat offers you, you should have to pay, just like everybody else that wants more room and chooses to upgrade. It's only fair.

by Jen on Monday, April 27, 2009

Great!!! I hate fat people, where it's in their genes or not. Charge them by the kilograms!

by hate fat on Monday, April 27, 2009

It was the suggestion for raising revenue that got the most support; I don't think they're saying that the majority supported a fat tax.

by on Sunday, April 26, 2009

Did anyone catch this from their web site? A survey as to how Ryanair should get extra revenue? This is classic.....
25% (surveyed) - EUR1 for toilet paper - with O'Leary's face on it,
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

by on Sunday, April 26, 2009

If one in three voted FOR the fat tax, than two in three voted AGAINST!

Somehow Ryanair then concludes people have overwhelmingly supported the fat tax.

by airfare on Sunday, April 26, 2009

Many overweight people cannot do anything about being fat. It's in their DNA. So should we charge blind people more because they take longer to get on the plane and find their seats? hmmmm?

by ricky on Sunday, April 26, 2009

Has anyone heard from Cadbury on this? Quality Street, Guiness and Clan MacGreggor?

by on Sunday, April 26, 2009

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